I’m an American living in Germany, FWIW, so the expat angle appealed to me. Looks to me like dad does one hour of easy work while mom does one hour of hard work. The loss of control has been very difficult and I’m not surprised at all that some women try to control what they can. For reference I’m also a POC, but that doesn’t mean my position still can’t be one of privilege so that’s fair enough and a good point to think more about. [–]starspeakr [score hidden] 9 hours ago (0 children). I think a lot of birthing people need more control. I think there was still something there that’s helpful in just the sense about maintaining your identity. I didn’t take it as a guidebook, but more just an added perspective since I look at parenting through a very American lens. I just don’t want to feel pain and I want myself and my baby to be healthy. Yay hero dad??? However, waking so often at night isn't the norm elsewhere in the world. I feel like she's "learned the skill" of putting herself to sleep. I decided that this was untenable, and things needed to change. I appreciate you sharing your perspective. But I do want to like the appearance of my body again... for myself. All link posts must include content from the OP in the form of a comment. I definitely didn't agree with the childbirth part or the "maintaining sex appeal for your husband" part, but a lot of the other stuff in the book was interesting :), [–]BButFirstCoffeeTeam Blue! For the uninitiated, "Bringing Up Bébé" was an international bestseller written by Pamela Druckerman, an American living in Paris. [–]pockolate[S] [score hidden] 16 hours ago (4 children). [–]lirulin17 [score hidden] 11 hours ago (0 children). But at the same time I found it an effective point to illustrate how extreme American individualism can be, This to me doesn't represent American individualism, instead it's low key horrifying. She is probably cleaning the entire house while the kids are gone. You would only be motivated to go through the effort if you felt like you were the victim of malpractice, which is what this path is supposed to be for. The dads in France are actually worse than the US though! I liked, and have adopted the bigger themes - prioritize my physical and mental health (don’t sacrifice my whole self and relationships for “motherhood”), guilt and anxiety can be the culture I live in but I can choose to not buy into it (and buy into all the pricy products that exploit those feelings), and learn to observe (not control or hack) my child; he is his own person and has his “rhythm.”, [–]ttcthrowaway2020 [score hidden] 15 hours ago (2 children), There was a lot I didn't agree with in the book, but also a lot that I found really useful - Especially around maintaining individuality, and giving children space to learn for themselves. My only feedback to your comments on birthing position is that, as I understand, laboring on your back with legs spread will restrict movement of the sacrum and space in the pelvic outlet, thus decreasing opening for baby to rotate and exit. With Katharine Hepburn, Cary Grant, Charles Ruggles, Walter Catlett. I feel like I have so much more free time these days, I'm much more awake, I enjoy my baby so much more, and I feel like SHE is so much happier. [–]TwoRoads2Travel [score hidden] 14 hours ago* (0 children). I feel like a lot of the American "i haven't taken a shower in days" type stuff, or the "i never have time for myself" type stuff is a result of 2 things: shitty husbands/partners who don't step up and do their share (which, in France, seems to be mitigated by their excellent affordable child care). And I want to emphasize that it all comes down to personal choice—there are pros and cons to every decision here, and no single technique is right for everyone. 100%. She goes on rapturously for whole paragraphs about the svelte figures of French moms. Your body no longer feels like your own because it’s doing these crazy things, people’s ideas of personal space go out the fuckin window when you’re preggo, and as soon as you start announcing you realize that this little bean that barely even exists is already having mountains of expectation placed on them by the outside world. I gained 12lbs with my baby and was back in pre-pregnancy clothes a week later, no stretch marks or anything. Originally posted by peachu. !I love the big eyes! People were constantly trying to shove food at me and mocking my smaller portions, saying I need to eat more for baby. Not to mention the chefs preparing fresh, real food for those children. My baby laughed at “Le pause.”. gets her really excited, since I started months ago saying that before feeding her), so I'm hopeful that this will be helpful. Yep you heard it here moms, the secret to being as happy as the French is to accept that even though you and your husband work full time, you’ll be doing twice as much house work for the next 18 years and you should just decide this fact makes you happy actually. put down "drowsy but awake"). Yeah...it's sad to think we even have to go against a mainstream culture to feed kids in a healthy way. It moves the baby and gets it into the best position, often faster, but not in every case. - It was too late, your life had already ended. Like I said, I ultimately think it’s good that in the US there is more respect given to different preferences and needs. I don’t mean to be offensive but it felt so refreshing to not hear more about losing your identity to motherhood, having no time or interest in yourself (even personal hygiene), pushing your marriage to the bottom of your priority list. I sometimes joke that I would like to have a Queens birth , So when I read this book I wrote a novella-length response that I typed up but never posted. Epidurals can be great, they can also slow down labour and lead to a higher number of interventions. He doesn’t pull his weight because he doesn’t want to and that’s that. There’s certainly a lot of entitlement in the US to have things your way, and that’s often been quite celebrated, but at the same time there are plenty of examples where that really goes awry (hello anti-maskers..) so I found it good food for thought. [–]ttcthrowaway2020 [score hidden] 4 hours ago (0 children). It's important for her to learn that she can be safe and happy by herself (she doesn't need me there all the time). Anonymous said: dude stop Is there somewhere was one of the best smut i have read in my life!!!!! Chuuya: - All he saw was red Like, I don’t care about how I give birth. She only cried for one to two minutes before falling asleep each time! Directed by Howard Hawks. I know that it's considered normal in American culture for babies to sleep poorly, and for parents to get up frequently at night for the first year or longer. I use the same bedtime routine for all naps and bedtime, and it's very short (5-10 minutes). This weekend I met my friend Samuel at the park. of real people’s feelings but I’m kind of taking it as more of a theoretical approach. I got the impression that compared to the US, French women have to do more work and also look put together at the same time. For example, I see many people concerned about the epidural because they want to be able to walk around. What that French doctor said about “giving birth on your back with your legs open” .. sounds really okay to me. Anyway I wanted to vent because the author is so uncritical of aspects of French life that are clearly toxic. Honestly it seems weird to imply that too much parental autonomy is the problem with giving birth in the US, when the opposite is true! Because you are a sexy woman, which is incompatible with showing any outward sign that you had a baby, nope, that’s a no go, better lose that weight within 3 months and definitely don’t let your husband see you below the waist during vaginal birth, or you will disgust him with your gross body. in a way I can see how it must be easier for sure to just go with the flow along with everyone else! , [–]PootatoMama [score hidden] 15 hours ago (0 children), I read the book and enjoyed it (as an American no less). So the legal motivation is actually worse for medical outcomes! The next thing I wanted to fix was the "staying asleep" problem. Devido a isso, Youmu vai para Eientei mas acaba tendo confronto com a Inaba Reisen, não tendo outra escolha Youmu é obrigada a lutar contra ela. I saw this book was recommended and had been previously discussed on this sub, and I was intrigued by the discussions so I wanted to read it myself - I just finished it. However, almost all the time I can put her down within five minutes, which feels like such a weight has been lifted compared to what it was like before. However, I've had multiple nights where she's slept 8 hours in a row! and join one of thousands of communities. Bebe's style features a scoop neck, and you can snap up a similar version at Italist by clicking right. In fact I had the exact opposite reaction as the OP to that quote from the doctor. She definitely has learned other signal phrases though ("are you a hungry girl?" My midwives didn’t care that it was my first time, I still was allowed autonomy and control over my experience. I am first trimester, don’t have a birth plan at this point except for some vague ideas, but I will say, one of the hardest things about pregnancy so far has been the loss of control. In the long term, I hope OBs and L&D nurses receive better training for giving birth in more effective positions. A place to ask and answer questions all related to pregnancy. On Day 2, it worked for two naps. The author's ideas about it seem to come from her rich New York enclave and are not representative. I think it becomes problematic if the men are putting on the pressure or it’s because men have expectations you have to meet “or else”. In fact they think it’s adorable, and believe men are just biologically worse at doing things like booking a babysitter which …. You hear this a lot, often as a moral judgement like, oh those terrible selfish people who just want to ruin doctor's careers for a quick buck. :D I wonder who he���s looking at. When I started, the most urgent situation to fix was baby crying for 3-4 hours every night. A native of Brittany, he���s describing my children as ���the mysterious French man���, but like me, he is a suburban dad here in Connecticut. The whole free daycare and preschool thing!! I really appreciated the view in the book that you don't need to give up everything about yourself in service of your child, and that this isn't even necessarily good for the child. A year ago, Amy Chua, a.k.a. It's time to go to sleep." I actually laughed out loud at the quote from the doctor who was like “no this isn’t a circus or a zoo, you’ll give birth on your back like everyone else”. Look madam, that’s a damn lie. On Days 4 and 5, we had a bit of backsliding, and drowsy but awake worked about half the time. But it seems like French women simply dispel much of the guilt about baby weight by just not gaining too much in the first place.. whereas I feel like there’s an increasingly strong voice in American circles of the catch-all “you’re growing a human! [–]coffee-and-poptartsFTM | Baby Girl due Jan ‘21 [score hidden] 12 hours ago (1 child). Bringing up Bebe book My husband and I just started TTC so I���m planning to read a few pregnancy/parenting books. I mean, he’s my husband, I don’t think it’s internalized misogyny to want to attract him. She fussed for about 10 minutes before falling asleep. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. By Day 5, I was able to put her down drowsy but awake for pretty much all naps/bedtimes. I'm glad I read it, just to get another perspective on baby sleep. I was going crazy. The book has good advice, but to find it you have to wade through a LOT of existential dread about getting fat. If she's awake in bed, but happy and quiet, I leave her alone. Thanks! Yeah, I was in agreement with you and digging the epidural route before I got pregnant. While I think birthing on your back with an epidural is just peachy if that's what you want to do, my alarm bells sound reading the quote from the doctor. I personally loved the book. Made me feel so jealous. I don't think either are wrong or bad, but I am grateful to have options (and I'm sure those feelings are a direct product of our society and culture! Advice on coaching baby not to need the boob so often at night? I did really hate the whole “do whatever you want because you’re growing a human” attitude. while pregnant. I tried many of the suggestions there, without much luck. [–]SamiLMS1 Autumn 8/8/2020 [score hidden] 14 hours ago (0 children). I can really tell the difference when she's had an "off night" (and has woken up multiple times, needing to be bounced back to sleep), verses when she's slept through. . Baby cries for 3-4 hours at bedtime every night! Anyway since French parents spend park time hanging out and drinking coffee, these sightings are hardly evidence of a hard working dad. That being said... i don’t feel like American women ultimately care less than French women (French women according to the author of course) about what they look like during and after pregnancy. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: All Bump Photos belong in our Stickied Daily Thread, All Ultrasound/Announcement Photos belong in our Stickied Weekly Thread. Zero. I started keeping a sleep log, which has been tremendously helpful. I never actually used the Ferber method of CIO! I think there are a small number of people who truly don’t care how they give birth, who are fine being on their back with their legs spread, etc. Ugh. But in the meantime, protecting the hospital from lawsuits is not the responsibility of the patient. It was honestly the worst part of my labor. [–]sakijane [score hidden] 14 hours ago (1 child). LO would cry for 3-4 hours every night before going to sleep for the night, required literal hours of bouncing/singing lullabies (for naps and bedtime), and was waking up about every 2 hours at night wanting to nurse. I did more research, and I ended up with the following hypothesis: I decided that this problem was due to a "delayed sleep phase"--basically, baby was going to sleep too late, and sleeping in too late in the morning (after crying for several hours, she would pass out around 10pm and would wake up for the day around 9am). [–]pockolate[S] [score hidden] 16 hours ago (1 child). [score hidden] 1 hour ago (0 children), the French way of doing things is more for the convenience of the doctors. Listen to thousands of best sellers and new releases on your iPhone, iPad, or Android. They weren't that bad so I'm not super wed to going unmedicated, but your comment struck me as reasonable and objective (and not extreme) and I'd love to learn more!! . Congratulations on this working for you. A great place to come for post-partum depression, breast or formula feeding issues, and body image. [–]perditadolores [score hidden] 18 hours ago (3 children). Since Day 5, I've been able to put her down "drowsy but awake" for almost all naps and bedtimes. I actually really vibe with the “don’t rock the boat, just order off the menu” mentality, but I’m more about autonomy when it comes to giving birth. The book made me feel validated in still wanting to take time to care for me and look good. [–]lirulin17 [score hidden] 16 hours ago (6 children). Help! Middle class and lower class women overall will never have the opportunities to catch up to men if the burden keeps falling on them. Like this compulsion to constantly customize your environment - definitely resonated with things I realize I do sometimes, and many of my peers here do to extremes (like the ordering off the menu thing... if I had a nickel for every time I was out to dinner with someone who needed to ask 100 questions and change out ingredients...). Unlike parenting fads that come and go, this book will always be We do occasionally have a hard time--she's refused some afternoon naps, and some bedtimes are rough, especially when naps haven't gone well that day. Not only would it be good for my mental health to sleep in longer chunks of time, but it would also be healthy for baby--having longer, uninterrupted chunks of sleep is good for brain development. Like, parents need to respect that their children are individuals who can control themselves, and kids need to respect that their parents are individuals who need grownup time. I’m hoping to move around my room and try varying positions to maximize engagement, rotation, and FER during active and pushing phases. I actually posted a cry for help here on BtB about how to reduce wakings at night, but only received comments saying that I shouldn't night wean (Advice on coaching baby not to need the boob so often at night?. On. Anyway, I’m curious if you’ve done much research into different birthing techniques and preferences, or if you’re choosing an epidural and back labor because it’s the standard in the US? As much as I hate to admit it, I definitely used pregnancy to indulge more than I normally would. But when you show up to deliver, you’ve got to work with the pros you’re assigned, whatever their failings: forcing them into unfamiliar situations worsens the outcomes. It’s like how you HAVE to leave the hospital in a wheelchair, even if you can walk completely fine, because they don’t want you to sue them if you trip and fall. She quickly noticed how French children behaved very differently from her own. I think childbirth is one place where you need to be flexible but it’s absolutely ok to have preferences, and everyone should be educated on their options so they can advocate for themselves. I know there was a bunch of criticism of the attitudes concerning birth and women’s appearance during pregnancy and after giving birth. I found the part about how all French moms apparently give birth in an assembly line fashion entertaining in a “omg that’s so weird” way. She seems so much happier now that she's sleeping longer chunks at night! I look back at where I was a month and a half ago, and I am SO HAPPY I am no longer there. However, I honestly think that without all this work, we'd still be having a really rough time with sleeping. ": How reading about ��� :). I’d be curious if french society similarly wrests control away from parents so early. [score hidden] 7 hours ago (1 child). (Apparently men don’t have a responsibility to look beautiful at all times, imagine that.) I will say France has better maternal mortality rates than the United States but, this also has to do with a disparity of care across incomes/race/locations, and France has better maternal postpartum care for sure. [–]pockolate[S] [score hidden] 17 hours ago (2 children). If she was actually crying (genuinely upset), I would pick her up and would try again. But the French way did kind of resonate with me personally. Sorry, nobody needs a whole pizza or whole cake, pregnant or not. At the end of the day, medical necessity will be prioritized over personal preference. That’s the overall impression I got from the book and I appreciated it. So this caused me to realize that these things I take for granted are fairly arbitrary cultural constructs, and not automatically the best way to live. The French celebrate beauty, which is fine, but I got a sinister vibe. You can read 100 stories here where the medical team coerces mom into getting pitocin, tells her lie in the bed for hours at a time, does cervical checks without consent, and so on. Other things I started that may have helped these "going to sleep" issues: I streamlined our bedtime routine and do the same thing for naps AND bedtime: read a book, dim the lights and put on the white noise, bounce on the yoga ball while singing the same two lullabies, put her down. [–]sweettutu6421 | FTM | March 25 | [score hidden] 15 hours ago (0 children). NTA based on title alone. CONQUERING "DROWSY BUT AWAKE"), The next problem I wanted to address was needing to bounce her for 15-30 minutes before every nap and bedtime. . no this isn’t a circus or a zoo, you’ll give birth on your back like everyone else”. Given that I have ptsd from sexual assault, maintaining even a bit of bodily autonomy (to move and eat or whatever) became a much higher priority once I got into the experience of pregnancy, where I previously thought that pain management and ability to relax would be a higher priority. The second thing is some sort of performative martyrdom on behalf of women trying to win points for how devoted they are to motherhood which frankly just doesn't seem healthy for anyone. I decided to follow the method in Ferber's book about reducing feeding at night. It is very obvious that French culture (the way it’s described here, by an American author) has an undercurrent of sexism and body shaming. Don't get me wrong, I did have some strong cravings that I really wanted to satisfy (and I did), but there weren't too many of those when thinking about the whole 8 months I was pregnant. Fatherly has it: advice, gear reviews & life tips. Why no sleep after your epidural? I did a lot of research, and tried many different things. I’m definitely open-minded to the fact that my mind could completely change later on. [–]mera_aqua [score hidden] 14 hours ago (0 children), Perhaps a better way to have worded my thoughts rather than harp on the epidural is that I just don’t really have a birth plan the way many others seem to. Perhaps a better way to have worded my thoughts rather than harp on the epidural is that I just don’t really have a birth plan the way many others seem to. And these policies can be almost totally opposite to the comfort and even safety of the patient. - You cracked a smile before coughing up some blood - "That's the first time you've said that to me. I also found the “bounce back for your husband” message to be a little misogynistic. FTM 19 +4, I had my anatomy ultrasound today. There is a never ending list of issues you can talk about with charter schools without ever once bringing up the actual quality of education. Then on the very next page after this statistic, the author backtracks and says fathers do help out because she sometimes sees “scruffy” dads taking kids to the park. [–]Allibob1 [score hidden] 14 hours ago (0 children). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352013219301309. However, this one didn't really resonate with me--it relied more on anecdotal proof (I'm much more of a "research and studies" gal), and the extinction method didn't jive with me. Kept thinking, maybe I’m judging this book too harshly? But I know so many miserable American mothers who have given up everything and make choices they are deeply unhappy with, who don't feel like themselves, but they derive their self-worth from this sacrifice and they are quite depressed, and hey, maybe that's not a healthy societal pressure to put on women? I guess I just found their lesser tolerance for guilt refreshing and something I’m thinking more about implementing in my own life now. Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother (ISBN 9781594202841) is a book by Amy "Tiger Mom" Chua, a Chinese-American Professor of Law at Yale University (sorry Yale) who seeks to import the "Asian Tiger" economic model into parenting. It just got me thinking that maybe the French approach is simply a more practical solution.. not necessarily “better” but kind of just taking the current beauty standards in stride and coping accordingly for their own sanity... if that makes sense? She usually sleeps about 6 hours, then nurses, then sleeps another 4.5-5 hours before waking up for the day. [–]QualityNameSelection [score hidden] 16 hours ago (0 children). Yea like I didn’t want to just dismiss that entire part immediately because of its echoing of patriarchy and misogyny. I also think sometimes women that are FTMs think xyz will be ok, but in retrospect, you can never truly know until you have had your birth. Sidenote: this technique actually worked too well, and she overshot the mark, haha. 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